At 20:25:01 on 18.01.12, noneotherthan01 wrote:
Ohhhkayy, so I've been working with Jamaica on acccepting a snaffle, and it's been a TERRIBLE experience for the both of us! She absolutely will not listen to my eggbutt and anything past a collected trot and she won't stop when I ask her. She's been kinda stressing lately because there's no place for her to gallop and get out a lot off energy at the stable I'm boarding her at... and I know her personality and she's dying to gallop around!! I feel like if she could get her bucks and runs out, she might be a little more keen on our schooling. I hate to keep relying on my weymouth... does anyone have any advice for a high strung horsey transitioning into a snaffle?? She took off with me on her back yesterday and I had to just pull her head around until she couldn't run tighter circles anymore... I hate to have to pull her head to the side to get her to stop (and at the trot I see that as kind of being ridiculous), so I need all the help I can get. I also posted this on the "Training the natural way" group... but kind of figured "Tack room tea room" had a larger audience.

At 22:25:14 on 18.01.12, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
Maybe go back to basics? Long line her in a snaffle and do flexing exercises on board to get her to listen to the snaffle and respect it, bend her head either side, back her up, use pressure and then release. If she does get strong when she does stop make her stand for a while or even back up a few steps but when she is responsive let her have her head for a walk on the long rein for a bit. You have to make sure you reward her for even the smallest achievements so she understands what she does that is right and what she does that is not right... Hope this helps

At 11:24:04 on 19.01.12, bazz94 wrote:
Totally agree with Jess, pretty much everything I would say. It's GREAT that you're bringing her back :D makes me happy haha. I'd also like to add: because she does sound quite hard mouthed make these sessions short and sweet at first. Slow is fast. And really exaggerate your body with your hands (i.e. pretend there are a sack of potatoes in your bum for slow down) Good luck and don't give up! :D

At 18:30:48 on 19.01.12, noneotherthan01 wrote:
Thanks guys! I'm going out to the stables later today so I'll let you know how things go... I'll try doing all the techniques you guys talked about! I also took this post off "training the natural way." Just a question for Jess... should I lunge her in just my bridle? or should I use some attachments (flash attachment, tie down, etc.)? I've been trying to work on her responding to my seat more with slow down, that'll be top priority!

At 19:58:37 on 19.01.12, noneotherthan01 wrote:
Oh, and one last question... what's the proper way to put a horse on the vertical? The technique I used before doesn't quite work in the snaffle and I was wondering the traditional way to get her head straight!!

At 22:58:51 on 19.01.12, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
I would first just lunge with 2 lunge lines like a long rein so she learns to turn in a snaffle then as she progresses maybe invest in a cheap version of a pessoa training aid (lots of makes do cheaper versions than actual pessoa's) and when you say tie down do you mean a standing martingale? I am not too good with different countries having different names for things lol. And as for getting her on the vertical it is natural you will find it difficult because you previously had a bit with poll pressure so it did some of the work for you, with a snaffle don't seesaw or wiggle even if people tell you so, it is not the right way and it really bug me haha, hold your reins with your thumb on top and rotate your hand slightly forward (thumb going forward) to take a contact but start of light and increase the contact with her being new to it, you don't want to get into a fight :P, i will get a video of the lunging of youtube and a pic of how to hold your reins, hope these help

At 05:13:38 on 20.01.12, noneotherthan01 wrote:
yeah, that video helps me get the general idea. I think surcingles are pretty easy to come by, but does the pessoa (or any other makers) come with anything else special i would need?? like, perhaps side reins, or any other attachments specific to a training aid? Yeah, I think tie downs and standing martingales pretty much do the same thing. Would that help me get her on the vertical? Todays training went really well. Hadn't thought of using two lunge lines though, so I just used one and clipped it to the side of her bit she was turning on so it would simulate my turning her on her back. I also took the reins in my hands and propped one arm around her neck and walked beside her and asked her to stop and turn like that (basically I was doing what my hands would do on her back, without me actually being in the saddle) she took a little while to get used to me walking with her but once she got it, it was a little easier, and she stopped pretty well... I also stood at the saddle and asked for her head to either side and let off pressure when she moved her nose towards me (does that make sense? haha) When I got on her back I focused on really dramatizing all my movements. I would lean way far back when I asked her to whoa and drive with my seat when I asked her to walk on. She seemed to be getting something because I would lean back without asking her to whoa with the reins and one of her ears would go back (probably waiting for the "whoa" command). I was happy to get some kind of response from her. Lastly we walked 50 meter circles to work on turning and she really wanted to get up and move for those, so I found myself trying to hold her back from a trot for most of those circles. I feel like a surcingle might really help put her in the right position... she doesn't like to bend into her turns and it might help a little with the vertical.

At 18:59:09 on 20.01.12, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
You just need a lunge roller/surcingle to use a pessoa, it is a better alternative to side reins, i will include a pic... As for standing martingales i hate them lol all it does is hide the problem and pull a horses head down by the nose which aids the bit in no way it is like riding in a hackamore and a bit all at once, pressure on the nose and the reins, i am not a fan lol and if you don't want to buy a surcingle you can use your saddle, just tie your stirrups to your girth and pass the lines through the stirrups :) although you do need a roller (surcingle) for using a pessoa

At 17:26:12 on 23.01.12, noneotherthan01 wrote:
Okay. I've pretty much just been lunging in the bridle... if I was to pass it through the stirrups, what advantage would that give me? I've also been using no training aids at all, no breast collar, no martingale attachments, no flash, etc. I want to be able to ride her without relying on equipment like that. And as far as the pessoa is concerned... now I'm a little lost on what that is haha. I know it's a brand of horse stuff, so is it just the brand of surcingle? or is it a product as well? And what exactly is a roller? I don't have a whole lot of experience using a surcingle so I don't know any of the names for the attachments or what they do :) Jamaica seems to be responding really well to the training, and it's getting easier and easier to stop her on her back... I think the combo of leaning back (using my seat) and reining her back is helping her get less confused. She's also always hated backing up, and I've been working on that with a lot of progress too.

At 00:19:51 on 24.01.12, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
It is the product and make it is called a pessoa training aid but you can get cheaper versions if you shop about and a roller is just a training aid that substitutes the saddle, you use the rings on the roller like you would your saddle to attach side reins or a pessoa training aid etc... I'll put in a pic. And the stirrups will just stop your lines flapping about and keep a steady contact simulating what your hands would be doing in the saddle. :)