At 08:30:47 on 15.06.11, Em28 wrote:
In light of the new film Buck being released in America, based on the Cowboy Dan (Buck) Brannaman, who was the inspiration behind the Horse Whisperer. Along with Monty Roberts receiving the Royal Victorian honour from the Queen in recognition for his service to the Queen. I thought I would get us started on the topical debate of training methods. Which do you prefer? Do you think that Monty Roberts methods are the way forward in training? Is horse whispering the best way to train every horse? Do you follow traditional methods or what is termed natural? Or maybe you take a bit from everything and have your own style suited to the individual horse. Would be great to hear what everyone else's opinions are on this one......... Also for any more info read the trot on round up of news for links
http://blog.trotontv.com/2011/06/trot-on-and-catch-up.html

At 00:11:02 on 16.06.11, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
Monty roberts is amazing! When you have seen his demo's and you see how quickly he can back a horse that has never had a saddle on! He had this horse backed with a rider on board trotting round in under a hour and the horse had one buck when the saddle was first put on but other than that was totally calm! I was totally gobsmacked, i love natural horsemanship but i hate the film the horse whisperer, to me it isnt about a horse whisperer but a horse breaker, i mean the hobbling thing just gets me that is NOT helping or gaining the horses trust, it works because the horse HAS to give in :( and i love monty so much because he doesn't agree with any form of force, i love teaching grenville tricks with just food, nothing else he has to figure it out himself, i taught him spannish walk yesterday with just the power of carrots and me walking round like a idiot saying "foot" over and over and eventually he worked it out and kept doing it without a command for the treats, i didn't even have a head collar or lead rope, i love natural horsemanship because your horse chooses to be with you he can go away any time he feels the need to but can come close too and if me teaching grenville to spannish walk (from not understanding any of it) in under 20 mins isn't enough proof natural horsemanship is the best way i don't know what it, i would like to see someone try and teach a horse that quickly and positivly the natural way... :) So yeah i vote monty all the way

At 09:06:22 on 16.06.11, Em28 wrote:
Yeah have to say I agree with you there Jess, I too am a fan of Monty, all the hype about him being a phoney I could not believe. He has changed the world for horses. I have not really heard of Buck Brannaman, he sounds very similar to Monty though, with similar background etc. Not sure if anyone else knows much about him? Also, with regards to traditional training, if we didn't evolve in what we do we would still be in the dark ages, I think some horse training techniques were far beyond their time taught by some great horse masters and in the best interest of the horse. But equally some are outdated and not working 'with' the horse in partnership, but trying to instil fear and domination.

At 22:29:12 on 16.06.11, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
I am sure he has theories similar to monty but if the film 'the horse whisperer' is based on him then he hobbles horses and that is my hate, i can think of nothing worse :( and i agree the horse world is moving forward all the time and that is a good thing :)

At 21:17:31 on 19.06.11, horsevid wrote:
Have trained in Monty's methods for about 10 years now and been lucky enough to spend time with him on tour and socially, he is a really nice guy although sometimes a bit American for English tastes! Never been able to watch the Horse Whisperer film, it did a lot for introducing people to less violent ways of training horses, but lying a horse down is pretty extreme imho. Also didn't want to see the lorry accident at the beginning!! Monty was originally an adviser on the film but resigned when he found out they wanted to lie the horse down/hobble etc, he doesn't agree with that at all.

At 21:19:35 on 19.06.11, horsevid wrote:
There is some good stuff to learn from Buck Brannaman even if you don't agree with all of it. As with everyone, you have to pick the bits that feel right to you. I think he has influenced a lot of the current "natural horsemanship" people.

At 17:22:00 on 21.06.11, Flicka wrote:
I agree with horsevid about picking the best bits. I've definitely picked up some good ideas from the more 'natural' schools that have definitely helped me deal with horses that have issues with things like loading or being caught and to enable a rescue horse who wouldn't let anyone touch him, trust people again. And in particular it opened my eyes to natural horse management. Monty has definitely influenced more traditional sports like racing for the good of the horse-I've seen it first hand. I think the trad v 'natural' problems arise when those who've gone down the 'natural' path become a bit evangelical and holier than thou about it as if traditional methods were all cruel. There are, and have always been many brilliant 'traditional' horsemen and women around, and the 'natural' way isn't necessarily new, but the latter have come up with a teaching 'system' which is one of the reasons they've proved so popular.

At 00:09:56 on 22.06.11, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
I agree some traditional methods are good, the only things i dislike in riding is spurs, strong bits and hobbling/force :) everything else i pretty much like lol also tried to watch the horse whisperer again last night and i had to turn it off when the whole hobbling thing came on :( makes me really upset to see a horse treat that way. The worst part is they actually hobbled the horse in the making of the film, the horse was 'trained' to hobble and lots of people still train with hobbling, what it achieves i will never know but it does upset me to see a magestic horse looking so pittiful and helpless... Here is a video i found and it is worse than just hobbling cos he actually gets on the horse (which nearly falls when he mounts)

At 00:16:20 on 22.06.11, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
thought i would mention i quite like pillars which is a traditional way to teach piaffe etc but i only agree with it when the horse is in a head collar not a bridle so if it pulled to hard it wouldn't pull its mouth to pieces

At 00:26:11 on 22.06.11, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
tell me if this is getting boring or old or irritating lol but just thought i would show you a film of two girls that are trying to mimic the horse whisperer and completely mistake the horse gasping for breath for submission -.- this was the video i was looking for when i found the other one...