At 21:01:41 on 21.08.10, ToriSilverson wrote:
ok so i have had charlie for 2 years now...and he has come a long way but i still have trouble getting him to take the bit...we got him in an eggbut snaffle...and he had a VERY high head..so, about a year ago, we switched to a double jointed loose ring snaffle...and he was more comfortable, i think he enjoyed having a bit of play in his mouth. but i still feel that its not quite right. what do you think? should i stick with the bit he has in...or do you have any ideas for a new bit? i was curious about trying something with a bit more poll pressure, or more play, or softer...? he has quite a short mouth, and is excitable, but not strong, and very sensitive.

At 23:43:57 on 21.08.10, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
I think putting a bit in with poll pressure would only make him more unwilling to take the bit. And when you say take the bit do you mean you have trouble getting it in his mouth or he doesn't accept the contact. If it is just getting it in his mouth grenville used to put his head out of reach so i switched tactics i put his reins over his head fist so he couldn't get away then held his bradle and head firm in my right hand (standing on his left) while my other hand came to get the bit in by putting my thumb in his mouth. Also with loose ring snaffles if you think he is not happy/something isn't right maybe you need rubber guards between the rings and the mouth as sometimes the rings catch the skin without the guard. If i have missed the point give me some more info and i will try to help :) i often miss read/interperate things

At 23:44:07 on 21.08.10, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
misread*

At 23:59:56 on 21.08.10, ToriSilverson wrote:
o he takes the bit into his mouth fine, he doesnt take the contact. i will take up a loose contact usually but he will just ride with his nose poking out, if i take a tighter conact his head just goes higher and it takes ALOT of work to get him to take the bit and lower his head never mind going into an outline. at first i thought it was me, i am checking my riding thoroughly, but i rode several different horses while he was lame and all of them responded willingly, from my stubborn 12'2 to my cousins 15'2 tb and even a riding school pony (who hadnt been asked to work in an outline in years) with a similar head carriage to charlie. he is not in pain in his back or anything. there doesnt appear to be any sign of his bit nipping him, could it be nipping without leaving a mark?

At 13:40:34 on 23.08.10, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
It sounds as though he isn't comfy with the bit and it could be nipping without leaving a mark, try the guards and if this doesn't work maybe its the jointed bit he doesn't like? Some horses resist the action of bits with a joint so maybe try a straight bar bit? Also i think if you get a bit with poll pressure he would probably put his head into a false outline because he would have no choice. Grenville hates the bit so i rely completely on my seat and legs to get him rounded off and only keep the contact on hacks incase he decides to spook, i used to ride him bridless but the yard owner has now stopped me. If i was you i would perhaps fiddle around with a few light bits and guards to see if it is the certain bit he doesn't like or bits altogether that he doesn't like. If he goes well in a straightbar or with guards then great if he just doesn't like bits i would either get a bitless bridle or ride on as loose a contact as you can and use you legs and seat to drive him into an outline. Also if you choose to keep a bit a martingale might help? And since you say your horse likes playing with the bit and is sensitive maybe try a happy mouth straight bar snaffle? The horse at the riding school i used to ride at loved this bit cos' it was so light and soft :)... Good luck :)

At 13:56:26 on 23.08.10, LadyJennivieve wrote:
I'd suggest a running martingale to encourage his head down, and so that the bit still acts on the corners of his mouth (correctly) even when he is walking like a giraffe. Is the muscle underneath his neck large?

At 19:00:13 on 23.08.10, ToriSilverson wrote:
thanks for the help guys, i will play around with a few bits and the guards. one of the benefits of keeping your horse at a riding school is that there are loads of different bits lying around. he does have a running martingale, when i first go him his head was soo high i had to use a standing martingale for a while. he did have a large muscle under his neck, we figured this was due to him being hacked for a year with his previous owner...im not sure if it still is large, il check it.

At 13:04:14 on 31.08.10, LadyJennivieve wrote:
It's more likely to be from him working llama/giraffe style or from him bracing against a standing martingale or anything that would hold his head down. I wouldn't have thought hacking the horse out would have had anything to do with head carriage, unless he's constantly stressed the whole time and constantly on head up watch mode.

At 14:31:25 on 31.08.10, kibby wrote:
Phil's neck muscle was built up in the wrong places, it was from when the lady that campaigned her while i was too young didn't do flat work with her.. It took us a year to get phil to consistently work in an outline because she didn't have the muscles yet.

At 14:59:49 on 31.08.10, Flicka wrote:
I think hacking out could encourage a higher head carriage if he is a fast walker. I found for me it really helped to really slooooow the horse down. Go back to walk work firstly in the menage and go slow, slower ha ha, until almost at halt, use lots of half halts and sit on those back legs!! Then start to put in your turns, small circles and shoulder in but all really slowly. When you start on trot only move up into that pace when the head and neck are relaxed and then do just a few ambling slow steps before coming back to walk again. That's what Lucinda McAlpine got me to do with Millie at first, which is totally contrary to the 'really ride her forward' which had been drilled into me for the previous few years, and it really made us turn the corner.