At 23:53:01 on 06.08.10, kibby wrote:
ok, so i decided to try the seven games, and i am have a lot of difficulty with sam and the porcupine game, when i m trying to get him to yeild with his forehand he either doesnt move, or try to move and walks back and faces me? any advice??

At 09:56:48 on 07.08.10, NMH wrote:
How I've been taught to do forehand porcupine: stand facing base of horse's neck; put one hand on side of his face, other on his shoulder, apply gentle, but gradually increasing, pressure in both places. To start, have rope short (tho' not taut), in your head-pressing hand, so you can correct forward movement swiftly, whilst keeping up the 'ask'. (Have you got a parelli or equivalent halter? Makes a huge difference.) If you get backward movement, just stay in the same position relative to the horse & keep the pressure up. Any slight sideways yield (even just a lean, to start), release pressure immediately; repeat until you get the nearside front leg cross in front of the further one, which is what you are after. Just one teeny step is brilliant! stop & rest, make fuss etc, then ask again, aiming for lightest pressure response. Refusal to move forehand is more typical of L brain horses which is counter-intuitive to what I've heard about Sam, but he sounds a complex character & may have a mixture of characteristics according to situation. Hope this is some help

At 10:18:10 on 07.08.10, HUNNYMUNSTA wrote:
Does he move from the driving game? the suggestion? im just wondering if he heavy anyway? or taking t mick? lol, in the field he'd move from a leader at the flick of an ear or roll of an eye.. this shows he doesn't respect you as a leader and isn't moving out of your space as your requesting.If was is a heavy dont care what your doing im ignoring you kind of a guy - Id pich him well bloody hard in the chest or cheek - depending on where ypour driving him from, to totally insult him/shock him!!, then when i ask again id expect him to move with a light brush of my finger tips or he's gonna get it again, this is what the lead horse would do in the field! in fact a leader would double barrell him. Sorry to sound harsh but thats the way it is.Remember porcupine in the field consits of biting each other etc like get out of my way thats my hay!!

At 19:02:48 on 07.08.10, plodalong wrote:
left brained horses are hard to move on the forehand but easy to move on the hind end. i am sent you a note Kibby but its just the same as what NHM suggests you try. good luck.

At 19:05:08 on 07.08.10, plodalong wrote:
Hunnymunster i think Kibby is trying to put her relationship first,and rightly so, the horse needs to keep his dignity and respond without fear.

At 23:21:17 on 07.08.10, kibby wrote:
Thanks guy.. He is complex fellow lol.. I tried join up with him yesterday as well.. followed by the friendly game.. just left it at that, but he responded well. i will try the rest of this today.. so thanks again..

At 10:17:32 on 08.08.10, HUNNYMUNSTA wrote:
In a recent pat parelli video i watched the other day Pat actually used spurs to create a porcupine game, i am sure he was putting his relationship first plod along :)

At 10:20:07 on 08.08.10, HUNNYMUNSTA wrote:

Another example of porcupine and I can assur eyou these two have a fantastic relationship :), i can give seperate advice on building relationship if asked, my above comments are only re achieving porcupine game.

(Click here for larger view)

At 14:55:05 on 08.08.10, HUNNYMUNSTA wrote:
This is off a pat parelli site; "As you ask your horse to yield, the pressure starts with a determined look and a soft touch then becomes progressively and smoothly more insistent, making it increasingly uncomfortable for the horse if he doesn't move. The INSTANT the horse responds by moving away, or even tries to respond by shifting his weight, immediately release all the pressure! It's not the pressure that teaches. It's the release from pressure that tells the horse he did the right thing. it goes on to say ** this is parelli quaoted " few years ago in Europe there was a young girl who had a Swiss mountain horse. These horses are mostly used for packing and driving and are not the most sensitive creatures in the world. They're pretty thick-skinned because they've learned to get along by pushing against the pressure of the bit and driving collar up steep mountains. This particular horse took the girl sand skiing whenever he pleased. He also had a trick of yanking his head around and literally flinging the poor girl from one side to the other. You could see that the horse had made a game of it. He wasn't being mean, but he'd play games to get his way. When it came to the Porcupine Game, this horse was not going to move. That little girl was pitched against his side, pushing her fingers into his skin with all her might and he just stood there and yawned. I came to help her and took out my pocketknife as I approached and concealed it in my hand. I rubbed his side, pressed very lightly with my fingers, then pressed a bit harder and a bit harder again and finally introduced the flat screwdriver tool from my pocketknife and kept slowly increasing the pressure. That horse lifted his head, widened his eyes, grunted and stepped away. He couldn't believe it! I released the pressure and rubbed him, then began again with the light pressure of my fingertips. Again, I ended up having to use the screwdriver head to be effective, but the third time I asked, that horse moved with just a little bit of pressure from my fingers and continued to do so after that. All he needed was to know that I was going to be effective. It was up to him to pay attention to the lighter requests. If you are not effective, you are just nagging your horse. If you don't find a way to be effective you will constantly have to use heavy amounts of pressure to get anything done and the horse will wind up aggravated and dull. Horses are always effective with each other. They always come on slowly but are ready to follow through. The untrained eye often misses these subtle messages and that's why people get bitten, kicked and struck. When one horse invades another horse's space, the second horse lays back his ears (warning #1), tosses his head (warning #2), snakes his neck (warning #3), then bites a chunk of flesh out of the other horse's neck if he's still there. The invading horse either didn't notice or didn't believe the other horse's signals of intent and wound up with a bite. Next time, that invading horse will recognize those earlier signals! Teaching your horse to be light and responsive Every time you prepare to porcupine your horse, you need to rub him first. After you've pressed and he responds, you need to rub that spot again. This is especially important when he is just learning how to move away from steady pressure. If you just start prodding and pressing and never rub before or after, your horse will become pretty defensive. When you approach him or put your hand out toward him, he'll start to move away trying to escape ungracious pokes. This is especially common with sensitive horses. Rubbing is a form of the Friendly Game (#1 of the Seven Games) and is vital in the horse-human relationship. If you rub first, then apply steady pressure in mounting increments, release the instant he moves and rub again, you'll be well on your way to developing a good physical communication with your horse. I back up my point thanks

At 15:00:11 on 08.08.10, HUNNYMUNSTA wrote:
to make a short note of the above if you dont have time to read yes Pat actually used a SCREW DRIVE TOP! - to porcupine the heavy horse...you may think this is cruel or you may see his point its all a metter of personal preference!...