At 17:57:55 on 31.01.10, YasandCrystal wrote:
Hi plodalong, I think Endospink is being sarcastic - she is a he evn tho he wears pink jods sometimes in his vids lol. He is a very caring and kind trainer, but he has to do the job quickly otherwise the horse will literally be shot if it won't race. He works in Japan and he trains all the very 'difficult cases' - he is sometimes the last resort. I think he refers to trhe NH not liking cruelty and he does not use cruelty hence the sarcasm. If you are interested take a look at his many vids including use (as a professional only!) of TAP on Youtube. I love the Friend video - it makes me well up. His music is always choice too. U can see I am a fan ;-)

At 18:57:15 on 31.01.10, farasi wrote:
So why is this bucking strap and whipping the horse to stop it bucking considered acceptable because it's western riding? Why are some of you saying it's OK? So what I need to do is develop a new style of riding called I haven't got a clue, that people readly accept that beating, kicking in the guts and smacking the horse round the face is perfectly acceptable because that is the style that they use? Or am I mising something that some of you can see that justifies that correction method is fine to use?

At 08:49:44 on 01.02.10, Flicka wrote:
Yes, interesting point and I was discussing this the other day with a friend. When is a violent act acceptable? If the timing is right? A horse will kick or bite another horse? Like you Farasi, I don't agree with beating, kicking and smacking BUT I have witnessed some strong armed tactics that seem to have worked(pressure and release were well applied by a pt2pt trainer friend) and others that were appalling to watch and most certainly didn't. In this particular case though it doesn't seem right to punish a horse that is bucking when it is being lunged or free-schooled as surely bucking is just natural expression-isn't it? The horse though should learn it isn't appropriate when ridden but is this horse getting mixed signals where some bucks are ok and others aren't? Just a thought. There's a good chance your horse may have a problem with it's back or saddle but the bucking may now have become a learnt behaviour. The fact he seemed to be in a bad mood and bullied other horses makes me think there could be a pain issue here. I also wonder if he has ulcers or IBS which makes horses feel bad tempered and often sensitive to the girth.

At 06:02:10 on 07.02.10, Sue862 wrote:
Flicka brought up an excellent point this could very well be a pain issue. But I wondered why everyone became so sensitive to h0rzkrayzii post, although I do agree that this horse would not benefit from this method, I also did not see violence in this method? Using a whip and beating a horse with a whip are two completely different subjects. For training purposes especially a young horse I personally would prefer to see a horse dealt with on the ground rather then someone yanking on their mouth. Which leads directly to my advice, as well as the possibility that this behavior is learnt it is also possible it is memory stored due to someone yanking on his mouth prior to or over the fence. Either scenario would create this ill temper. Someone already suggested starting with the basic's and concentrating on calming and relaxing and I think that would be the best decision for the horse's sake.The use of side reins was mentioned and I think that idea is actually counter productive as this will not allow the horse to relax or stretch. Keep in mind three years is a long time,so whatever caused this there is no quick fix. It is generally harder to undue something then it is to due it right from the start.

At 08:52:19 on 10.02.10, Angelalain wrote:
This thread has brought into focus (slightly)My feelings about the Natural Horsemanship movement!!! When you consider it was developed (commercially!) as a respose to some of the more violent methods accepted in the 'working horse' states, It has a place. My immediate reaction to the 'lunge and whip him' post was very similar to most of you, but reading the whole thread it becomes less shocking. While I don't think it would be at all good in the hands of an amateur, I can totally see the need (in cases like racehorses with a limited timescale) to get over these problems quickly. We don't all have the time and facilities or abilites to do it the naturalway. And if you send your horse away for schooling to get over a problem, what method are they going to use? Can you afford how long its going to take? How often can the problem be 'cured' by an experienced trainer, only to recur as soon as the horse returns to its novice owner? However, I seem to have rather hi-jacked the thread. Firstly the horse must have his teeth, back and tack checked to make sure he has no excuse for the behaviour. So many people move one saddle from horse to horse, its like wearing someone else's shoes!If it doesn't fit, the tree points either pinch or dig in. Even if your saddle fits, if he was ridden for 3 yrs in one that didn't fit, it will take weeks, or even months for the pain to go, and a very long time for the remembered pain to go!!!!When you are sure his behaviour is naughty rather than pain related you can move on from there. You need to build a relationship, but I don't feel just ground work can ever cure something like a learned naughty behaviour like bucking. In the end he's got to know that a. its not acceptable and b. its not doing him any good (i.e. he gains nothing by doing it, be it a good gallop down the field because he got away from you, or you stopping work because you are worried)I don't think violence is ever the answer, at then end of the day the horse will dislike and never trust you, and chances are, since he is stronger than you, you will not win and may get hurt. I don't come from the 'no hitting' school. I think a smack as a reprimand is sometimes necessary, but there is a world of difference between a slap and a beating! You need to sort any pain issues, let him know he is your friend, but that you are the boss, and take it from there. I hope you can get it sorted, there is some good advice in the previous posts.

At 22:34:10 on 10.02.10, fi919 wrote:
1 of my horses suddenly started to rear,buck,he became almost unridable.we had his back checked after he got into a fight with stallion,but it was fine,had his teeth checked and rasped.He was ridden in a western saddle so i took the western off him and put him in an English.We have took him right back to basics and now he can be ridden, after some months,in walk or a gentle trot.I agree with what was said about taking your time with your horse because it works,listen to him he ll let you know when hes finally comfortable and then he ll let you ride him without bucking/rearing etc.

At 23:40:03 on 12.03.10, JessAndGrenville123 wrote:
Holding his head up probably encurages the bucks because you will be unballancing him. I sympathise cos' i got my horse out of racing and he bucked and was a nightmare but working him in an outline and bonding really helped. Don't just ride all the time play ground games like football and free school. Join up and play games of tig and follow me. It sounds like a case of trust on both sides. You need to trust him too or your vibes will be detected by him. Think positive, relax and he will too. He may be relaxing with you but you may be aticipating a buck and not putting all your confidence in him. Trust is earned on both sides :)